Worth more than hee oweth

Worth more than hee oweth

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- HCA 13/71 f.XXXX Case: XXXX; Deposition: XXXX; Date: XXXX. Transcribed by XXXX^[1]

Case summary

Questions raised

Teaching points

Depositions

Richard Bladwell

Deposition: Richard Bladwell, age 21, Merchant, of the parishe of Saint Nicholas XXX old fishe streete London
Date: April 27th, 1652
Case: Thomas Awres and Company against a ship of an Unknowne Name laden with Corne and other goods and against Sophia Ernest

Deponent has known James Salmon for four years, and during all that time he has lived in "Tower streete within the parishe of Saint Dunstan in the East London where hee keepes a wife and familye, and liveth in very good esteeme and creditt amongst his neigbours and is a person of soe much credite that this deponent hath knowne his word taken for the some of 500 li sterling and upwards. And dureing the tyme of his knowledge of the said James Browne which hee saith hath bin by the space of theise twelve moneths and upwards hee the said Browne hath bin and is an Inhabitant and dweller and a howse=keeper in Water=Lane (as hee remembreth the name of the said place) neere the Customs house London where hee liveth in very good fame and repute amongst his neighbours And both the said parties hee saith were and are such persons as hee verily beleiveth and in conscience is perswaded will not sweare or depose any thing but the truth And for such thy the said parties are comonly accompted and reputed. And further saith that neither of the said parties predeposed of this deponents knowledge were hired or did goe out in the ship the harry when shee went out from this Port upon the voyage and designe in which she tooke the ship now in question, but both of them as hee saith went from London to Nor=Bergen in the shipp the ffortune whereof Jacob Hausa was and is master upon a tradeing imployment and meerely as passengers therein. The premisses hee deposeth because hee this deponent about 6 or 7 dayes after the departure of the said ship the harry from Gravesend mett and spoke with both the said parties heere in London and by them was then told that they were bound for Nor=Berghen in the ship the ffortune and after such theire arrivall in the said ship at Nor=Berghen this deponent receaved a letter which gave him advice from a freind at berghen that both the said parties were arrived at that place ina nd with the said ship the ffortune..."

Deponent has lived with Mr Southwood for three and a halfe years of the last four, and he believes that Southwood is apart-owner of the Harry; but can't decalre what dividend Southwood might receive if the ship in question is condemned

"hee this deponent whilest hee lived with the said Mr Southwood did often come to Doctors Commons about a suite Depending betwixt him and some ?Slanders but never came about this matter now in question but when hee came to bee produced and sworne and now that hee comes to bee Examined as itnesse herein"

William Falkoner/Falconer

Deposition: William ffalkoner, aged 52, of the parishe of saint Catherine neere the Tower of London
Date: May 8th, 1652
Case: Awres and Company against the ship of an unknowne name and against Sophia Ernst

"Hee this deponent about seaven weekes since being in the howse of one Taylor in the parishe of Saint Catherine neere the Tower of London which is a Victualling house and knowne by the signe of the Flushing did happen to bee in the same Roome where the arlate Michaell Groenenburgh was drincking a cup of Beere and discoursing with the arlate John Roane (whom this deponent well knoweth) touching the ship the Moses arlate and her ladeing; hee this deponent did then and there heare the said Michaell Groenenburgh very much endeavour to seduce and perswade him the said Roane to come and sweare as a wittnesse in this cause on the behalfe of the Owners of the said ship the Moses and her ladeing That the said ship was and had bin first taken by the ship the Harry arlate by her Company the Moses Company were and had bin turned out into Fisher boates which if hee would soe sweare the said Groenenburgh did in this deponents presence and heareing promise the said Roane to give unto him the summe of forty dollers, to which said proffer and perswasion the said Roane in this deponents heareing replyed that hee for his part would not sweare as the said Groenenburgh had then desired him for a hundred pownds. for that (as hee then said) hee should thereby doe much iniurye to such Seamen and marriners and the wives and children of such as by sufficient power and Comission had seized the said ship and her ladeing or hee saith the said Roane made answeare to the same effect. And further hee cannot depose"

The answere of the said ffalconer to the Interrogatories ministred by Suckley

"Hee cometh requested by Mr Southwood to testifie the truth of his knowledge in this cause for which hee neither hath receaved or Expecteth to receave any consideration save only for his losse of tyme but who must pay him for that hee hee yet knoweth not And saith hee is worth more than hee oweth And liveth in kingstreete in Stepney parishe where hee hath lived by the space of about three yeares and before that dwelt neere the Hermitage and in the parishe of Saint Catherine and getteth his liveing by unladeing of shipps which deliver theire ladeing in the River of Thames and saith hee is a howse=keeper and payeth all manner of dutyes and Taxes which are usually levied either for Church Poore, or the Army according as hee is assessed"

"The said Groenenburgh soe proferred the said Roane the money or Summe predeposed in the XXX XXXX XXXX XXX in the howse of the said Taylor at the signe of the fflushing at which tyme there was one Mrs Carter with this deponent and saith hee came accidentally into the said Roome and left the said Skipper and the said Roane behinde him there as hee found them. and well knoweth the said person who proffered the said Money to the said Roane to be the Skipper of the Corne=prize because hee the said Skipper then did lodge in that house and this deponent by the said Mrs Carter was then told upon this deponents asking of what ship hee was master) that hee was Master or Skipper of the Moses which had bin taken by the Harry and for such the said Groenenburgh was and is as he saith comonly accompted. And further saith that the said Southwood being informed by the said Roane of this deponents being present when the said Skipper promised the said Somme of money unto him before hee the said Roane went to sea, hee therefore by the said Southwood was desired to come and depose what hee had heard the said Skipper say." SIGNED IN CLEAR HAND BY WILLIAM FFAULKNER

Thomas Harrison

Deposition: Thomas Harrison, age 32, Victualler, of the parishe of Saint Mary Matsellon alias Whitechappell
Date: April 29th, 1652
Case: Awres and Company against the said ship of an unknowne name

Deponent knows Henry Bennett; "hee this deponent being drinkeing a cupp of wyne which the said Bennet att the halfe moone Taverne in Saint Ca?thernes Court neere the Tower of London upon the 14th day of February last past did heare him say and declare that hee the said Bennet did in the moneth of June last past or thereabouts goe out from this Port of London as Comander of and in the ship called the Harry upon a man of warre=voyage and designe And that during the said voyage hee had taken many prizes but whither the ship and Corne now in question was one of the said prizes soe taken by him hee saith teh said Bennet the said hee knewe not"

the deponent on Good Fryday last Easter mett with the wives of the said Browne and Mr Salmon the one at Stone Stayres neere the Custome House Key and the other at the house of the said Salmon was severally told by them that theire said husbands did goe out upon the said Man fof warre voyage in the said ship the Harry together with the said Harry Bennet..."

knows the arlate Richard Bladwell, and about 12 months back, "this defendant being at the Greyhound in Tower Streete London did then and there see the said Bladwell under the hands of the Custody of a Constable for stealing and purloyning of moneys from the arlate Mr John Southwood his Master at which tyme this deponent heard the said Southwood say that the said Bladwell had robbd him and that hee would therefore have him before the Justice or Lord Mayor and forthwith this deponent sawe the said Southwood procure the said Constable and carry the said Bladwell away before the Magistrate in a Coach which hee knoweth because hee saw the said Bladwell soe carryed away as is predeposed."

John Hearne

Deposition: John Hearne, age 44, Lighterman, of the parishe of Saint Buttolphe Aboat Allgate
Date: March 22nd 1651(52)
Case: Thomas Aw?res and Company against a ship of an unknowne name laden with Corne and other goods and against Sophia Ernest Casper XXXXX and others

Deponent well knoweth James Salmon and James Browne

In January 1651(52) the deponent being at the ?HexXXXXXX XXXX in Wapping did accidentally meet with the said James Browne"

"Browne who then haveing a sticke in his hand was beating severall Seamen into a Skiffe whereupon this deponent being very familiarly acquainted with him did aske and demand of the said Browne wherefore hee did soe force the said men into the said Boate whereunto the said Browne replyed that hee was Boatswaine of the ship to which those men belonged, And then this deponent desireing to know what ship it was and upon what designe shee was bound the said Browne forthwith said that hee was goeing out with Captaine James Salmon in the ship the Harry upon the tearmes of noe Purchase noe Pay..."

At the beginning of March 1651(52) he and Richard Prior "being at the howse hereuntofore comonly called Richard Bells howse and now Richard Jones his howse in Water Lane in Tower Streete London and heareing that the said Browne was returned from the said voyage did send for the said Browne (who liveth within two or three doores of that place) to come and drincke a cup of beere with them.."

Browne came to the room that Hearne and Prior were in and "this deponent tooke the cup and said ?heare Boatswaine I drinke to you for which the said Boatswaine returned thanks and by that tyme that the Cup had gone about and was come againe to this deponents hand hee this deponent dranke againe to the said Browne by the very same terme of Boatswaine as before and then asked the said Browne if hee went out with James Salmon in the ship of warre called the Harry whereof Henry Bennett was Commander upon the conditions of Noe Purchase noe pay." Browne, allegedly replyed that he did

Hearne attests that Browne made this answer verbally and in public, in the presence of him, Prior and "James Sands and William Moore of Saint Catherines"

Hath knowne James Browne for about 15 years; and that "hee is a middle statured man blackish haire and a ruddy complexion And the said Salmon hee saith is a full bodied man of a light Browne haire and a faire complexion" and hath knone Salmon "ever since hee was eight years of age"

Hance Johnson ?Jcksted

Deposition: Hance Johnson ?Jcksted, age 23, Marriner, of Stettin in Pomerania within the kingdome of Sweden
Date: April 29th, 1652
Case: Awres and Company against the said ship of an unknowne name

The Harry set out from London in or about the month of August 1651; off the coast of Denmarke the Harry meet, surprise and take at sea near a place called ?Ulish Riffe the ship the ?Moses, whih was and is together with the lading the subject of the current controversy; the deponent was on the seized ship, and describes Awres and Bennett being in equal command

"by the said Awres and Bennet hee saith both the said Samon and Browne were comanded out of the Harry and went abord the said ship the Moses or Corne ship now in question the one videlicet Salmon as master and Browne as Boatswaine this deponent sayeth hee sawe the said parties execute and undertake, and accordingly by the order and appoyntment of the said Awres and Bennet as Master and Boatswaine of and abord the said ship the Moses departed and sett saile with the said ship for Berwicke; the deponent was Cooke on the Moses

Deponent, after the Harry had taken the Moses "during such tyme as this deponent was abord the said ship the Harry after she had soe tooke the Moses hee did heare diverse of the Harryes company say and affirme that the said James Salmon was appoynted to goe master and the said Browne Boatswaine of the said ship or Corne prize called the Moses"

deponent cometh at the request of Michaell Goronenbury, skipper of the Moses, to testify; "hee well knoweth the said Awres by sight"

never saw nor knew the harry until the sizure of the Moses

saw the Harry three months since in the River Thams

"shee is of the burthen of about 15 or 20 Lasts and carryed 8 peeces of Ordnance when this deponent last saw her"

"hee first saw the said Browne and Salmon at the same tyme of the seizure of the said ship the Moses and saith the said Salmon is a fatt man middle staturd and hath a bald crowne and the said Browne hee saith is allsoe of a middle stature, Blackish haire of a swarthy complexion and both of them live in some place neere Tower streete London"

to the 5th (Interrogatory) hee cannot speake the Englishe Tongue but can indifferently understand it And saith hee never was in England till XXX theise 4 months or thereabouts and then stayed about 5 or 6 weekes and soe went to dantzicke from whence hee returned thither againe about 7 weekes since"

William Moore

Deposition: William Moore, age 66, Lighterman, Of the parishe of Saint Catherine neere the Tower of London
Date: April 27th, 1652
Case: Thomas Awres and Company against a vessell of an unknowne name laden XXXXXX and other goods and against Sophia XXXX and Company

Deponent knows the Harry and James Salmon and James Browne: "this deponent being a Lighterman by profession and plying to and fro in the River of Thames whilest the said ship the Harry lay there betwixt old and New Wapping Stayres ymediately before her departure upon the said voyage did see both the said Salmon and Browne very often abord her and sawe them carry and demeane themselves as persons in the respective imployments predeposed"

(speaking of the Harry) "the said vessell is but a small vessell and carryed 9 peeces of Ordnance"

"Hee hath knowne the interrogated James Browne and James Salmon by the space of about theise 12 yeares and came first acquainted with them at Billingsgate where one of them was a lighter=man and the other a Cole=meXer, And saith the said Browne liveth at Water lane neere Tower Street, And that the said Browne is a man of middle stature and browne haired And that the said Salmon is a fat, full bodied man and hath a bald Crowne"

"this Examinate is an English man and can speake none other language but the Englishe"

Richard Prior

Deposition: Richard Prior, age 30, Lighterman, of Wapping in the parish of Stepney
Date: March 22nd, 1651(52)
Case: Thomas Aw?res and Company against a ship of an unknowne name laden with Corne and other goods and against Sophia Ernest Casper XXXXX and others

Deponent well knoweth James Salmon and James Browne

"In or about the Moneth of June last past hee this deponent being in the streete att Wapping Wall by accident mett with the said James Browne who then and there told this deponent that hee was now goeing out upon a desperate designe upon the tearmes and conditions of Noe Purchase Noe pay and then asked this deponent whether they should drinke together before his departure, to which this deponent condescended and soe went into the Blacksmiths Armes upon Wapping Wall together with the said Browne, And saith that about 3 weekes or a month since this deponent together with his contest John Hearne being att one Bells howse in Water lane in Tower streete London and heareing that the said James Browne and the arlate James Salmon were returned from a voyage which they had lately made to Sea in a man of warre sent for the said James Browne to come and drincke a cup of beere with them..."

Browne told Hearne that he had been out on the Harry whereof Henry Bennett was Commander, and that he went as Boatswaine of the ship, and that James Salmon went out Captaine "in equall ?clayme and Comission together with the said Bennett"

Deponent cometh at the request of "Andrew ?Huyson an East Country merchant"

Hee hath knowne the said Browne by the space of about seaven years and came first acquainted with him by this deponent goeing to buy a lighter of him the said Browne being then a lighter man by profession, and of a Middle stature and black haired and a ruddy complexion. And the said Salmon hee saith hee hath knowne by the space of about 12 moneths and came acquainted with him through the said brownes meanes And that the said Salmon is a full bodied man of a middle stature for height, light coloured haire and ruddy complexion"

"Hee for his part cannot tell whether the said browne and Salmon bee honest men or noe and such as will not sweare an Untruth. but saith that the said Browne did voluntarily declare unto this deponent and his ?precontest that hee and the said Salmon went out upon the designe of Noe purchase noe pay, which hee saith is noe honest calling as this rendent conceiveth"

William Roalfe

Deposition: William Roalfe, age 63, Cittizen and Whitebaker of London, liveing in the parishe of Saint Dunstan in the East
Date: April 28th, 1652
Case: Awres against the said ship of an Unknowne name and goods abord her and against Sophia Ernst

Deponent has knowne James Browne and James Salmon for theise last 12 years

"the said Browne and Salmon, for and dureing all the said time and ever since they were married men were and are good housekeepers and men of good fame and credite in the parishe wherein they live And such as hee is veryly perswaded will not sweare or depose that which is not true"

Deponent lives very near Salmon

Deponent comes to testifie at the request of Mr Southwood of Ironmonger Lane

Deponent lives in Saint Dunstan in the East, where he has been a householder for the last 30 years and "liveth by his profession of a Cole-Meater"

Isabell Robinson

Deposition: Isabell Robinson, age 32, widdowe, of Wapping in the parishe of Stepney
Date: May 8th, 1652
Case: Awres and Company against the ship of an unknowne name and against Sophia Ernst

"About seaven or eight weekes since as shee remembreth the tyme shee this deponent liveinge in the howse with her Mother a widdowe woman in Wapping in which houuse the arlate John Roane then lodged and dyeted and had soe done for severall weekes before) did then and there heare her said Mother desire the said Roane to pay her what was due from him for his said Lodgeing and Dyet to which the said Roane in this deponents presence and heareing replyed that att present hee had not wherewith to satisfie her demands, but that if shee would have patience till such tyme as the Corne prize taken by the Harry to which shipp he belonged when the sayd Prize was taken was condemned hee would pay what was due unto her And then shee saith the said Roane further said that hee meant to deale honestly with her and that hee for his part was offered tenne pounds by the Skipper of the said Prize (which hee then said was a great deale more money than hee oweth this deponents said Mother or that hee should XXXX by his share in the said prize if it was condemned) if hee would but beare false wittnesse and XXX against the Owners and Company of the said ship the Harry touching the ?manner of the takeing and seizeing of the said Corne vessell":

In answer to INTERROGATORIES: ""She cometh desired by Mr Southwood merchant to testifie the truth in this cause and neither hath or Expects to receive any thing for her soe doeing And saith that the said Southwood came to knowe what this deponent could say in this matter upon her this deponents repaireing and going severall tymes to his howse to which place sh went to demand moneyes of him which was due to her said mother from the said Roane. And saith that she never was a wittnesse for Mr Southwood in any cause. And further saith that shee liveth at the sign of the three Castles neere the Hermitage in Wapping where shee getteth her subsistance by Pickeing Ocum for the use of Shipping and that shee is a house keeper with her said Mother and whilest her husband was liveing did pay Scot and lot according as hee was rated. And otherwise shee answereth negatively" (SIGNED WITH MARKE OF ISABELL ROBINSON)

James Sands

Deposition: James Sands, age 27, Citizen and Lether sellar of London, of the parish of Saint Buttolph Billingsgate London
Date: May 1st, 1652
Case: Awres and Company against the ship of an unknowne name

"hee this deponent well knoweth the arlate James Salmon and James Browne and saith that 6 or 7 weekes since

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Thomas Thorneyworke

Deposition: Thomas Thorneyworke, age 45, Cittizen and Corn Chandler of London, of the parishe of Saint Mary Hill London
Date: May 5th, 1652
Case: Awres and Company against the shipp of an unknowne name laden with corne

The deponent "well knoweth James Salmon and hath soe done by the space of theise eight or nine yeares llast past dureing all which tyme hee saith the said Salmon..(NEXT PAGE)

"...(FROM PREVIOUS PAGE)...bin and still is a Married man and a house keeper within the parish of Saint Dunstan in the East in London where this deponent hath knowne him to live for all the same tyme in a very good fame and repute and a person who from tyme to tyme hee hath knowne to bee credited to the vallew of about 500 li sterling by severall persons. And for and as an able and an honest man and soe hee the said Salmon was and is comonlz accompted and reputed amongest all his ?neighbours dwelling about him." For the entire time the deponent hath dwelled himself in the next parish "not farre from his dwelling house" and "hath bin well acquainted with him and his manner of liveing and conversation"; Deponent comes requestd bzy John Southwood; the deponent "liveth in teh parish of Saint Mary Hill neere Billingsgate where hee hath lived by the space of theise 17 yeares as a Colemeter and a sworne man to performe XX XXX truly and iustly"

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William Vervell

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